Transcript:
Q&A WITH A SOFTWARE ENGINEER WHO WORKED AT GOOGLE

Q: What did you study after school?

I studied Computer Science and Software Engineering at the University of Wollongong.
After that, I did a Master of Information Communication Technology, majoring in Enterprise Networking.

Q: So, what did you like about the course? What was it like?

You study the theoretical foundations and also the practical approach to computing and its application. For example, the design method and how to write programs with C++ and Java or Python.

You could be learning about computer systems to control machineries or information management, the big data and for mobile apps as well, or even stock market trend analysis if you're into it. Some of my classmates choose a major for game design and then later on they're working for gaming companies afterward, or social network companies as well.

Q: Did you know how to code? Were you familiar with Python or Java when you started?

Not at all. I didn't study them in high school, so I started fresh in university. I started with the C++, because it's more traditional programming language.

From there you can choose what you're interested in. For example, I did Java for app design because I quite like the architecture and usage of the Java language. Then I picked up Python from work, when I was at Google.

Q: When you finished university, how did you jump into your first job? Where was your first job?

When I was in the second year in university my teachers encouraged me to look for an internship. At the time my English was rubbish and as an international student I was only able to work for 20 hours per week. I ended up working exactly 20 hours a week in the local IT company.

I remember that my resume was less than one page. I had to make it size 14 font so that I could fill the space. But it was enough to get me an internship as a software developer in the company. Once I graduated from my bachelor degree I got a job with them as a programmer, and that was the beginning.

Q: You said that your English “was rubbish” how did you work on it?

I learned English from the people around me at university. I used to take an audio recording from the lecture because there was so much vocabulary that was specific for computer science. I didn’t understand how it translated to my language, and understanding the conversion took a lot of practice. I also joined international toastmasters to practice public speaking and force myself out of my comfort zone. Basically I was just getting as much practice as much as possible. It’s a lesson that can apply to any student. It’s up to you to learn the skills you want.

You need to be proactive and ask for help. For example, I used to ask a colleague in the first year of my career to look at my emails in a draft format and proof-reading them before I sent them to the whole team. You take their feedback and you learn from it.

Q: Your first job was in computer programming, and since then you’ve collected some pretty impressive companies on your resume. Can you talk me a little bit through how your career has progressed?

When I graduated from university I started to work in a local IT company and stayed there for three years.
My next break was when I meet a Google recruiter in Sydney at conference. I worked at four different teams at Google and for two years in Australia and two years in London.

And after that, I went back to China and worked for a what was then a start-up, Tik Tok. It is going global right now, but when I started there we were still the development stage. I was hired to help them to monetize the platform with advertising and help them with the ‘go global’ strategy. I was in China for two years. Then I started my own venture in London, where I live now. It’s a capital fund to invest in tech start ups.

Q: If I jumped back to when you met someone who was working at Google and then yourself, got a job at Google. That opportunity is so rare, how did you take an introduction and turn it into a job, and what's your advice around getting your foot in the door at somewhere like Google?

Great question. I think at that time I was too young and too naïve to know the significance of working at Google. I think because of that attitude I wasn’t at the event with an intention to ‘network’ – I was just there to learn and it happened organically. I think a lot students to take a lesson from that; go to events because you would enjoy them and are interested in bettering your career, not to look for a person with a name badge that you think could help you.

I just had the natural curiosity to learn about the people who inspired me. If you do this, and have a natural curiosity to learn from people and their experience, you will apply their lessons to your own journey and they are helping you without having to lift a finger.

I think this attitude got me a lot of referrals in my career, which turned into job offers. I have never really had to cold call anyone for a job.

I think that you can put yourself out there to be considered for a job just by rolling up your selves, being available and open minded.

I wasn’t precious in my work. I knew I had so much to learn and when someone perhaps didn’t like my style or work I would just listen and take notes and consider it as constructive feedback. I always wanted to be better than I was yesterday and I think people like being surrounded by someone with this attitude.

Q: When you were at Google, what was your first position? You said you had four different roles there. Can you tell me a little bit about those?

When I first started at Google I was working in a product team that populated Google maps with information about galleries, museums and tourist attractions. I didn’t have much of an understanding of how a company like Google made money and this was a good first job because I started to form the understanding of using content about arts and culture can help strengthen a product offering, that in turn would deliver advertising money. I think the role transformed me from someone who was working as a software engineering and who was always as a backend and it slowly got to the front where I could communicate with humans and communicate with the customer; thinking about what they need.

Q: What was the culture like at Google? Is it a great community or is it hyper competitive? What's it like?

I think this is definitely very competitive. I think even in my time the acceptance rate was around the 0.03% mark, and that was even just to get into even interviewing stage. I was told that annually they would get around three million applications.
A lot of my colleagues were from elite schools and Ivy League college from the US or in the UK; think Cambridge and Oxford. I think there is definitely a lot of pressure to work in that environment, but I also think everyone's very unique. You have to build your own confidence and know what you are good at and be able to use it and also be able learn from others. I think that's the most incredible thing about working at Google. You are surrounded by well of the most smartest crowd in the world. Take use of it and learn from them, don’t treat it as competition.

Q: You moved to London with Google and then you said you went back to China to work at the company that went on to launch Tik Tok. How did that come about? Did you get poached?

I was debating with myself for a long time about whether it was time to leave Google. I think that after four years at Google, according to my manager at that time, I'd done everything I was supposed to do and not supposed to do. I think that's a great summary. I already made it around the world and had a variety of roles. I had learnt new cultures and about four different products, including search and advertising; and I just didn’t want to get comfortable.

I decided that I wanted to get outside my comfort zone and at that time, a good friend in China who introduced me my next employer. I thought, it's a perfect time for me to learn about start up culture. I wanted some first hand experience about innovation.

So I took a jump and went to Shanghai to lead a team of 25 to work on global monetization. Working in a start up like Tik Tok meant starting at 9:00 AM and working till 9:00 PM six days a week. But, that enabled me to grow fast – but also loose a lot of hair.

Q: So let's talk about Tik Tok a little bit, because as you said, it's a global sensation now. When in early days when they were still conceptualizing what it would be like, did you imagine that it would be as big as it is today?

I have no idea at that time, but I knew it had great potential.

They had purchased another company called Music.ly at the end of 2017 and I was hired as part of the team to help with their integration of that into the Tik Tok program.

I could really easily see how a Chinese company could go global by applying some lessons from Western applications; but I thought it was also really important for them to embed their own character and cultural creativity into the app. I used the skills that I learned at Google to help them build the strategy. Then when it took off it was time me it was time to leave. The moment that they knew how to focus on the creativity and product design (in a way that users were going crazy about) it was time for a new challenge.

Q: Can we talk about the Tik Tok team. I imagine there are people who are in global strategy, people who were in product design, UX designers. Could you name a few job roles that sit within that team?

There's so many different functions, similar to Google, or Facebook, or Instagram, or YouTube. I remember in a week I could do three onboardings every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. It grew quick. And that was just in China. Globally, they probably had hundreds of people onboarding every second day as well.

There was community management teams, operational management, accounting management, product design and partnerships. There are so many interconnected jobs in a technology company that are not programming. The last team that I was in was focused on global public policy and how we could engage in paid partnerships with policy makers. Tech companies are big, they have such power and influence that they employ almost every division you can imagine.

Q: It’s interesting that your job today is so different from your degree in computer engineering. Can you talk to that a bit.

Here is the thing, learning computer science or computer engineering or technology doesn’t mean you are going to be a back end programmer. It means that you will have the language to build innovative businesses, and once you speak that language you and design, negotiate or manger. It’s a skill that will open a door into any business. I could recommend the course more.

Transcript:
On The Phone With: Q&A with a current Westpac Young Tech Scholar

Q: What did you study when you finished high school?

When I finished high school I always thought I wanted to be a paramedic. I had my mind set on that but when I started going through all of the different degrees and courses online, I realised that there was so much more out there.

I remember my aunt (she was a senior manager at IBM) told me how substantially the field of technology was growing and how there is so much future in technology.

Q: Were your year 12 subjects technology related?

No, they were not at all technology related. I don't have any technology background. It was a very spontaneous decision for me.

Q: What was the name of the degree that you enrolled in?

A Bachelor of Science and Information Technology.

Q: What does that look like? For example, do you remember any of the subjects that you studied first year?

A good way to explain it, now I've actually realised exactly what the degree is, is it's very fundamental knowledge. Knowledge that you can build on in the rest of your career when you actually go into a technology role.

One of the first subjects was called programming fundamentals. Then there was communications for IT professionals, and then you had some basic finance subjects and basic information technology subjects and basic information system subjects. It’s all very fundamental knowledge for a career in technology.

Q: Coming from a background where you didn't have any of those hard technology skills, so you didn't know how to code. for example, did you find the learning curve really steep or was it all really accessible?

The degree is really good in that sense. They teach you everything from scratch. So as long as you go into your courses with an open mind and you're willing to put in the effort and time to get good grades, you'll be fine.

You don't need to have a technology background. It obviously helps, but everything is from scratch.

Q: Tell me a little bit about the Westpac scholar program. So how did you find out about it?

I was looking through scholarships when I was applying for my degree and I came across The Young Technologists Scholarship and it caught my eye.

When I read through it more there were certain bits that stood out to me. For example, they were looking for bright minded individuals with a generosity of spirit. I decided, “wow, this looks amazing”.

I remember the day I applied for the scholarship. I sat down in bed and I was like, “you know what, I'm going to put a lot of effort into this application,” so I sat down in bed and I literally spent one or two hours on my application and I made sure it was perfect.

I got a call a few weeks later asking me in for an interview. I was so excited but I was also thinking, “why? - why are they choosing me?” I was so confused.

Q: Tell me a little bit about the interview process. So how does that all work?

They sift through the applications, they narrow it down and they choose applicants for an interview. I went into my university and I went into a room with a board of people. There were some academics, some people from the scholarship, some scholars themselves and some previous scholars. And they asked me a variety of normal interview questions. But they just genuinely wanted to get to know me. They asked things like, if they gave me the scholarship what would I be able to bring to the table?

Q: What was your answer to that? So what did you think that you were going to bring to the program that was unique?

I was completely honest. I said to them, “I don't have any background in technology but what I do know is that I'm absolutely passionate about learning new things. I know that I want to help people in the future.”

I mentioned cyber security, because I did think that was an area I could see myself working in; but really just spoke about how much I wanted to give back. I want to be able to learn as much as I can and then one day actually make a difference.

Q: Can you tell me a little bit about the support that Westpac gave you during your studies because what I love about this program is they really do nurture you and there's the opportunity to work in Westpac Group Tech. Do you agree with that?

Yes, 100%.

First off I'll just say that Susan Bannigan recently said in one of our meetings, "We recognise and see your potential until you see it in yourself." And it's something that younger academics like us, it's something that we want to hear. If we don't believe in ourselves, Susan, the CEO of the Westpac Foundation, she's saying that, we will see it. We will recognise it in you until you see it in yourself. So they're actually willing to support you and help you grow. And that support comes in all forms. It comes in support network, social media pages, buddy programs. In my case they also helped me get exposure via a role in IT.

Another scholar who was already working at Westpac and mentioned that there was an opening in one of the projects. I submitted my application. I went through a little process. I got an interview. I ended up getting the role. And then from then I had my foot in Westpac, I had my foot in technology.

And as soon as I got in and as soon as I showed what I was capable of all these other doors opened to me, such as summer internships, networking. And then as soon as I got the chance to network and I was in the position where I could meet a variety of people that was when stuff truly started happening. And that's how I got to where I am right now.

Q: I love that story, because it shows that this scholarship is so much more than just the financial assistance. It's really the ability to get your foot in the door at somewhere like Westpac, which other students struggle and struggle and struggle to get their foot in the door. And they might have HD marks through university and some internships under their belt, but to get a graduate job there can be so difficult. And I love that this program makes that happen.

I’ve heard similar stories, a lot of my peers at university had the same issue where they're getting great grades and everything, but they just can't seem to get their foot in the door. But yeah, it's been amazing and I'm really, really grateful for it.

Q: So tell me a little bit about your job today. So what's your job title?

I'm a business analyst. So in simple terms I basically deal with stakeholders, system developers and testers and we manage the delivery of changes across the business, specifically in investments.

Q: So what's an example of a project you might be working on?

So we have a project at the moment where an insurance team has come to us with some alterations they need on the system they are using. And basically our job, as business analysts s to communicate these changes to the system programmers and make sure that they are implemented.

Q: What kind of skills are you using every day? For example, is it hard skills like coding or soft skills?

So the thing is one thing I've learned in the last two years working in Westpac is that yes, hard skills are amazing to have (obviously if you have programming skills that's amazing), but you need to understand that programming skills can be taught – but soft skills like communication, interpersonal skills, collaboration skills and attention to detail are essential.

I feel like that's what's really helped me in my role. I am more of a functional business analyst which means that it's not that technical.

Q: What advice do you think you have for school leavers?

When you think about a career in technology, don't automatically think you’ve got to know how to program in Java scripts or that you need to have very technical skills. There are so many positions and roles in IT. You don't need to necessarily be technical – take the time to explore all the roles.